| Literature DB >> 34939011 |
Afolarin Amodu1,2, Thalia Porteny3,4, Insa M Schmidt1,2, Keren Ladin3,4, Sushrut S Waikar1,2.
Abstract
RATIONALE &Entities:
Keywords: Biopsy guideline; clinical biopsy; indications for kidney biopsy; kidney biopsy; physician attitude; qualitative research; renal biopsy
Year: 2021 PMID: 34939011 PMCID: PMC8664729 DOI: 10.1016/j.xkme.2021.06.014
Source DB: PubMed Journal: Kidney Med ISSN: 2590-0595
Demography of Nephrologists (N = 20)
| Characteristics | No. of Patients |
|---|---|
| Age, y | |
| Mean ± SD | 49.1 ± 7.0 |
| Median age (range), y | 50 (37-65) |
| Sex, n (%) | |
| Women | 7 (35) |
| Men | 13 (65) |
| Race/ethnicity, n (%) | |
| White | 14 (70) |
| Black | 3 (15) |
| Other | 3 (15) |
| Years in practice | |
| Median (range) | 14 (4-23) |
| Mean ± SD | 13.2 ± 5.7 |
| Practice location (multiple affiliations possible), n (%) | |
| Academic-affiliated center | 16 (80) |
| Veterans Affairs Medical Center | 4 (20) |
| Nonacademic center, private practice | 4 (20) |
| Geographic location, n (%) | |
| New England | 14 (70) |
| Other Northeast | 2 (10) |
| Southeast | 1 (5) |
| Midwest | 1 (5) |
| Northwest | 2 (10) |
| Biopsy operator | |
| Biopsy done by IR or nephrology colleague | 17 (85) |
| Performs own biopsies: yes, n (%) | 3 (15) |
| Duration of interviews with participants, min | |
| Median (range) | 34 (20-55) |
| Mean ± SD | 34.6 ± 9.5 |
Abbreviations: IR, interventional radiology; SD, standard deviation.
Selected Quotes Reflecting Physician’s Training and Experience With Biopsy
| “I do quite a lot of biopsies myself, and so, I don’t feel nervous about ordering it or performing the biopsy myself. I mean some of my colleagues seem to feel that the biopsy seldom significantly changes management, but I don’t think that’s true. I think quite often we learn a lot about how we can treat people and about prognostic factors from the biopsy.” (nephrologist 10) |
| “Honestly, it’s much easier to have IR do it.” (nephrologist 18) |
| “… we have our IR readily capable of doing the kidney biopsies and we’re able to send it out locally to be read, and they’re pretty good.” (nephrologist 19) |
| “Half of that has to do with the time that it takes me or our staff here, that you know, our staff of nephrologists, to either leave clinic, stop rounds, go consent the patient, set up, get the patient down to radiology, and manage that is takes far more time than it takes Interventional Radiology to do it.” (nephrologist 7) |
| “You can order the procedure to be done by IR if there is no nephrologist. Actually, it is easier to just get it done from IR. For a nephrologist to do it, it does require you to do it at a particular time slot…so if you’re busy during that slot then it becomes more difficult and may make you reconsider.” (nephrologist 6) |
| “We’ve been sending biopsies to interventional radiology with increasing frequency. Just because of faculty preference or faculty availability.” (nephrologist 11) |
| “Logistics in the community tend to be a little bit easier. All of them are done by Radiology for us. So anywhere, there’s Interventional Radiology or same-day procedure unit they’re pretty good and they’ve gotten it down.” (nephrologist 13) |
| “There’s logistics challenges to biopsy. We have fewer and fewer faculty members in our division who are doing kidney biopsies, now there are three or four faculty members in our division, it used to be everyone…it may be more difficult to find faculty who are available to supervise biopsies for fellows too.” (nephrologist 11) |
| “We’re losing them. I think that fewer and fewer nephrologists are doing biopsies, and so, skill level is down…I think that more of them are being referred out to interventional radiology or other interventional services.” (nephrologist 9) |
| “My teaching was actually very much pro biopsy...since then I’ve been doing a lot of biopsies myself, and I think I have pretty much the same approach to which was yes. Biopsy.” (nephrologist 15) |
| “I’ve never had a fear of biopsy, I think people do, but I’ve been like that since my training. First of all, I want to know. I would much rather know the answer to the question than to guess.” (nephrologist 16) |
| “The times when I have done a biopsy, it has been for good reason which makes me think I should probably do more. The way I was taught was if all your kidney biopsies are exciting then you’re not doing enough biopsies.” (nephrologist 19) |
| “Most of us practice in a highly individualized way probably based a lot on what we learned when we were training.” (nephrologist 20) |
| “It depends on where you trained. At Hospital X there’s a lot of biopsies that gets done there because of the pathologist and set up there, so you just want to know what it looks like.” (nephrologist 13) |
| “As a young nephrologist new in practice, I find that I leaned on my colleagues and I often discussed the case with other nephrology colleagues…those with more experience.” (nephrologist 13) |
| “I think now compared to when I was just coming out of fellowship, I’ve come to appreciate more how often we’re mistaken based on our clinical reasoning…the frequency with which the alternative diagnosis ends up being found on biopsy.” (nephrologist 14) |
| “I feel more people need to get a biopsy; it is getting those people biopsies sooner so that we can actually make a difference in their care that’s the challenge. My experience has been that we’re seeing far too many people late in their disease process…if the person has been biopsied sooner, clearly we could have made some difference but that didn’t happen because there is no access to care.” (nephrologist 19) |
| “There are numbers quoted in the literature, but I think physicians are also affected by their patient experiences. I have been in practice for a long time, I have certainly seen patient have complications from renal biopsies, so I take the risk very seriously. I feel more cautious and frankly very protective of my patients.” (nephrologist 3) |
| “I had a patient who got biopsied for hematuria, ended up with AV malformation and bleeding complications that resulted in a partial nephrectomy…so I think of it more thoroughly now.” (nephrologist 2) |
| “For solitary kidney, to me the answer is almost a hundred percent. I would never biopsy somebody who has a single kidney, it’s just too much of a risk in my opinion. I will empirically treat whatever the presumed diagnosis is in that setting.” (nephrologist 16) |
| “When you see patients have major complications or potentially die from complications of biopsy, it changes your thinking about risk and benefits. I think that is probably a natural progression as you gain experience and maturity.” (nephrologist 9) |
| “It’s largely because there are other diagnostic tools now that kind of help us that I don't necessarily feel we need to biopsy.” (nephrologist 18) |
| “I consider age, frailty, need for anticoagulation, body habitus…the frailer the patient is, the less likely I will be to recommend a biopsy. If the patient is very obese and I think that it’ll be technically challenging to get the biopsy safely then I may be less likely to recommend one.” (nephrologist 14) |
| “I have a low threshold to do biopsy in younger patients, I want to protect their kidneys for a longer time because their life expectancy is longer. I also have a higher tendency to biopsy African-Americans because of the underlying genetic makeup.” (nephrologist 5) |
| “I’m less inclined to biopsy people with very small echogenic kidneys…you get less valuable information on the risk is higher. I look at the age of the patient, I’m less inclined to biopsy in older age if I feel they cannot tolerate chemotherapy anyway.” (nephrologist 4) |
| “Other factors that weigh into my decision; people who don’t have good support at home. I usually think about it hard.” (nephrologist 10) |
| “Patients are very different; some patients really want to know, so the threshold may be lower. Some patients really do not want a procedure and you really need to factor that in as well.” (nephrologist 6) |
| “It would depend a bit on the person, there are those people who want to know, regardless of whether it’s going to change management. So, I think that also has to play into it. So patient preference is a factor that will weigh into the decision.” |
| “It is my view that it is our job as physicians to make a recommendation to the patient not to give them numbers and expect the patient to take the numbers and decide on what to do. So, I give the patient my best recommendation…I think you should a biopsy for the following reason.” (nephrologist #9) |
| “Oh! Another factor is the referring doctor. That sometimes has an impact. So, a particular rheumatologist or oncologist may feel very strongly that biopsy is going to affect care, even if I don’t 100% agree with that referring doctor, if the referring doctor feels very strongly then we might take that into account.” (nephrologist 3) |
| “We’re an academic program and I think that the threshold for offering kidney biopsy differs enormously across providers, which is usually a sign that there’s a problem…there is limited evidence to support practice, a lot of practice variation.” (nephrologist 20) |
| “I think there’s always a tension between doing a biopsy or conservative mgt…also I don’t think there’s really great data for treatment.” (nephrologist 9) |
| “I was more aggressive in the early days than I am now. You gain more clinical experience and comfort and form your judgments that differ from things you were taught…I used to biopsy patients with diabetes but no retinopathy, expecting to find something other than diabetes...every last one of them had diabetic nephropathy. So that you do it enough times and it changes your thinking and your practice patterns.” (nephrologist 9) |
| “I probably biopsy fewer diabetics now. We used to think of nephrotics would probably be an aggressive form of diabetic kidney disease and we were biopsying right away. But now unless they’re still in 10gram - 20 grams, we’re not going to biopsy a diabetic.” (nephrologist 18) |
| “I guess I rarely do it. I think the goal is to not, you know if you have 100 biopsies maybe just 5 should be diabetes you know. You have to take out a few normal appendixes.” (nephrologist 7) |
| “I will want to biopsy, although this could be diabetes, but we know that in diabetic nephropathy, in significant number of cases, there can be concurrence of other etiology that may be treatable. So, if we blame all the disease on diabetes, we may never pick up other etiology.” (nephrologist 1) |
| “Diabetes does not protect you against amyloid, minimal change disease, membranous glomerulonephritis, or lupus…just because someone has diabetes, I might biopsy them anyway.” (nephrologist 4) |
| “If there’s high clinical suspicion for AIN then I generally do not biopsy. I treat empirically.” |
| “I biopsy maybe half of them if I feel the risk of the biopsy is relatively low and if I am really not sure there is a culprit drug or if I am really not sure it is AIN I will biopsy. I also use steroids empirically quite often.” (nephrologist 7) |
| “I prefer to biopsy first, I don’t like treating AIN with steroids without a biopsy.” (nephrologist 12) |
| “I don’t necessarily have to biopsy before I use steroids. I also typically don’t use steroids because I feel like the risk of the complications of steroids outweighs the benefits because the data is so poor.” (nephrologist 16) |
| “We’re mistaken how common AIN probably is in the hospital. For instance, looking at somebody with AKI, I would wait less time before saying it’s time to go for a biopsy.” (nephrologist 14) |
| “I don’t biopsy ATN. There’s no information that I’m going to obtain on a biopsy of ATN that’s going to change what I do for management.” (nephrologist 11) |
| “You have to exclude ATN because I really try not to biopsy clear-cut ATN…if the history or the urinalysis suggests ATN, eg, if there was documented hypotension, documented sepsis and recent surgery and all the causes of ATN…I can be confident that it’s ATN and I would not biopsy.” |
| “A biopsy of ATN would be just out of curiosity. What could this be? But it doesn’t offer any potential benefit to a patient. There’s no benefit to a patient.” |
| “I don’t think they are very many specific therapies and so then, I think the risk of the biopsy which is higher in people with acute illness (ATN) is outweighed by the fact that I’m not going to change my treatment.” (nephrologist 10) |
Abbreviations: AIN, acute interstitial nephritis; AKI, acute kidney injury; ATN, acute tubular nephritis; AV, arteriovenous; IR, interventional radiology.